23d1 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) Strange. I wonder if it's due to KVM being on a fully threaded 64 core as opposed to single threaded, and Linux is more efficient in terms of offloading to more threads in the background so to speak. I currently get about 20-30% loss of performance in Cinebench R23. On 10/12/2021 at 12:58 AM, fabiosun said: KVM should be a bit less fast than Bare Metal or, in an ideal condition, kvm has similar values Bare metal; around 43000 points KVM; around 53000 points Windows; around 63000 points Edit; It does seem as though the CPU isn't using any boost or power management, it just sits at 2.9GHz and the fans don't even spin up when under load. I wonder if this is somehow due to not running at 128 threads, though probably not. I am loading AMDRyzenCPUPowerManagement.kext and SMCAMDProcessor.kext with AMD Power Gadget app... Frequency just stays at 2.9GHz... Edited October 15, 2021 by fabiosun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators tomnic Posted October 12, 2021 Moderators Share Posted October 12, 2021 4 hours ago, 23d1 said: Strange. I wonder if it's due to KVM being on a fully threaded 64 core as opposed to single threaded, and Linux is more efficient in terms of offloading to more threads in the background so to speak. I currently get about 20-30% loss of performance in Cinebench R23. Bare metal; around 43000 points KVM; around 53000 points Windows; around 63000 points Edit; It does seem as though the CPU isn't using any boost or power management, it just sits at 2.9GHz and the fans don't even spin up when under load. I wonder if this is somehow due to not running at 128 threads, though probably not. I am loading AMDRyzenCPUPowerManagement.kext and SMCAMDProcessor.kext with AMD Power Gadget app... Frequency just stays at 2.9GHz... Probably you're not boosting with PBO... try to set it to enabled in bios if it is on auto. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervisor fabiosun Posted October 12, 2021 Supervisor Share Posted October 12, 2021 64 cores is better than 32 c+32 threads cant you use also in bare metal 64 cores option without hyper thread? in cinebench 23 my best result is about 47000 with PBO enabled you will see also a wattage increase if PBO is enabled ( not auto, not disabled) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 9 hours ago, tomnic said: Probably you're not boosting with PBO... try to set it to enabled in bios if it is on auto. Yes, I tried PBO, but it's the same difference in percentage, basically. So there's quite a loss of performance in bare metal compared to VM. At least 10-15%. And 30% compared to Win/Linux... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervisor fabiosun Posted October 12, 2021 Supervisor Share Posted October 12, 2021 @23d1you know , I loved Proxmox way 🙂 but results in optimal situation was very similar and a bit lower than bare metal for all of us The advantages of proxmox were others, greater compatibility with Adobe apps ... but today I don't see valid reasons to still use that kind of virtualization (albeit advanced and fantastic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 39 minutes ago, fabiosun said: @23d1you know , I loved Proxmox way 🙂 but results in optimal situation was very similar and a bit lower than bare metal for all of us The advantages of proxmox were others, greater compatibility with Adobe apps ... but today I don't see valid reasons to still use that kind of virtualization (albeit advanced and fantastic) I hear ya. I would probably be running KVM if I could get past the pci message in kernel, just stops there when passing through the 6800XT, just before booting into the UI. Bare metal seems to work pretty good in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators tomnic Posted October 12, 2021 Moderators Share Posted October 12, 2021 We need to find out why your cpu stays at 2.9 GHz... have you tried removing all the AMD PowerManagement stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 6 hours ago, tomnic said: We need to find out why your cpu stays at 2.9 GHz... have you tried removing all the AMD PowerManagement stuff? Yeah, no difference in performance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 13 hours ago, 23d1 said: Yeah, no difference in performance. I posted an issue to the kext's github; https://github.com/trulyspinach/SMCAMDProcessor/issues/142 Doesn't seem to be overly active development, so we'll see if it takes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervisor fabiosun Posted October 12, 2021 Supervisor Share Posted October 12, 2021 25 minutes ago, 23d1 said: I posted an issue to the kext's github; https://github.com/trulyspinach/SMCAMDProcessor/issues/142 Doesn't seem to be overly active development, so we'll see if it takes... Could you post a screen grab of your PBO bios settings? thank you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, fabiosun said: Could you post a screen grab of your PBO bios settings? thank you I actually set it to the default Auto (Off), as my temps were getting crazy. It did increase the speed in general (with the same percentages of performance loss on bare metal, 30% and KVM, 15%). I had it set to the mid level (3), which was the default for enabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, fabiosun said: To have PBO enabled you must have a proper cpu cooling system but to prove a thing you can try this: put it enable in bios boot osx open AMD power gadget tools run cinebench cpu benchmark one time (off multiple tests) check tdp with amd power gadget max tdp value i mean You will be astonished check the same with auto or disabled for PBO option in poor cpu cooler condition PBO in auto or disabled produce pretty same tdp value as side note a huge tdp value produces tremendous temperatures and a tiny improvement in benchmark Yeah, on the Noctua right now after discovering it worked better than the AIO I had originally, but getting an Icegiant Prosiphon Elite tomorrow (hadn't realized it was released and a lot smaller than the prototype). In any case, I doubt it'll do anything for my current predicament with performance. Still getting 2.9GHz at a max of 250W even with PBO, so it seems to be an issue with 3990x and power management kexts if nothing else. Basically untapped performance. I don't even know what's possible anymore in terms of masking the CPU as something else, but I assume the only way is through KVM. There should be an increase/boost showing up, but no dice. I think that there is essentially no power management in macOS with 3990x. Here are a couple of illustrative vids (watching these I realize it's time to swap the monitor); IMG_0004.mp4 Same results pretty much. IMG_0006.mp4 Edited October 13, 2021 by 23d1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervisor fabiosun Posted October 13, 2021 Supervisor Share Posted October 13, 2021 maybe I was not clear I would like to see this: during Cinebench test with PBO enabled it is a bios problem AMD app if you do not modify basic feature or option is not responsible of lack of performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 7 hours ago, fabiosun said: maybe I was not clear I would like to see this: during Cinebench test with PBO enabled it is a bios problem AMD app if you do not modify basic feature or option is not responsible of lack of performance I can capture it, however it stays static at 2.9Ghz/2.9Ghz, only thing that changes is temp (barely) and wattage, but wattage stops at 250W. This is true for both with and without PBO enabled. Not sure what bios setting might help change that, if anything. It seems like a kernel level issue, but I could be wrong of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervisor fabiosun Posted October 13, 2021 Supervisor Share Posted October 13, 2021 @23d1could you post your config.plist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 7 hours ago, fabiosun said: @23d1could you post your config.plist? Here it is. config.zip 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervisor fabiosun Posted October 13, 2021 Supervisor Share Posted October 13, 2021 @23d1 1-SSDT-PLUG.aml.zip try to declare this SSDT in your ACPI/add section (copy it in ACPI folder) and see if something happens Config is fine , i think is a problem related to your bios (version/settings) In window your CPU scale well (min/max frequency and TDP i mean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, fabiosun said: @23d1 1-SSDT-PLUG.aml.zip 645 B · 0 downloads try to declare this SSDT in your ACPI/add section (copy it in ACPI folder) and see if something happens Config is fine , i think is a problem related to your bios (version/settings) In window your CPU scale well (min/max frequency and TDP i mean) Thanks! Will try it out and report back. Yes, in Windows and Linux it scales perfectly, and the increase in performance with PBO is insane, but staying stock for now until I swap my Noctua for Icegiant tonight. Edit; No change. Screen Recording 2021-10-13 at 10.36.35.mov Edited October 13, 2021 by 23d1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervisor fabiosun Posted October 13, 2021 Supervisor Share Posted October 13, 2021 @23d1 no extra idea..it is weird here is pretty simple PBO disabled or auto max tdp under 280 w PBO enabled (smart overclocking and max tdp about 375 watt till temperatures is moderate) we should compare Bios option and behavior with other Asrock creator user like @Driftwood 🙂 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, fabiosun said: @23d1 no extra idea..it is weird here is pretty simple PBO disabled or auto max tdp under 280 w PBO enabled (smart overclocking and max tdp about 375 watt till temperatures is moderate) we should compare Bios option and behavior with other Asrock creator user like @Driftwood 🙂 ) Yes, very very strange, I agree. I can snap some shots of my settings when I get a moment for comparison. I actually used @Driftwood's EFI shared in this thread as a starting point and built on that with AMDPowerManagement and so forth. I'm beginning to think more and more that it's a kernel thing that would need to be patched or kexted somehow. It seems that it just defaults to factory safe settings when in macOS, as I'm not even seeing any change in clocks in macOS when having PBO enabled (I thought I did at first, but that was through booting as KVM). Super strange. Edited October 13, 2021 by 23d1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervisor fabiosun Posted October 13, 2021 Supervisor Share Posted October 13, 2021 @23d1have you calculated your exact MMIO whitelist or are you using @driftwood one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, fabiosun said: @23d1have you calculated your exact MMIO whitelist or are you using @driftwood one? I'm using driftwoods one, which I now realize might be a mistake as I probably have some different settings in general. Do you have a link to info on how to calculate? In any case, I ran some Geekbech 5 benchmarks, and I seem to land at 885 single core and 25326 multi core, which is consistent with other results I see for 3990x ranging from 20k to 32k. So there seems to be a general (pretty large) performance loss with the 3990x on macOS compared to win/linux. Which would point to a need for a kext or something to tap into the full performance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervisor fabiosun Posted October 13, 2021 Supervisor Share Posted October 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, 23d1 said: I'm using driftwoods one, which I now realize might be a mistake as I probably have some different settings in general. Do you have a link to info on how to calculate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23d1 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 3 hours ago, fabiosun said: Thanks, yes—the values I have and the MMIO Whitelist is all correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rox67er Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) On 10/13/2021 at 6:12 PM, 23d1 said: I can capture it, however it stays static at 2.9Ghz/2.9Ghz, only thing that changes is temp (barely) and wattage, but wattage stops at 250W. This is true for both with and without PBO enabled. Not sure what bios setting might help change that, if anything. It seems like a kernel level issue, but I could be wrong of course. Do you have DummyPowerManagement enabled? (Should be disabled) Mine is working just fine (Same motherboard) While running Cinebench, I do run a low noise profile on my AIO so running a bit hot Edited October 14, 2021 by Rox67er 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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